Mission-Driven Podcast
The Mission-Driven Podcast features conversations with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them.
Luke Knox ’22 speaks with Joe Morgan ‘81 about what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur, and how his Holy Cross education prepared him to lead with integrity.
Recorded on January 28, 2020
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Transcript
Joe:
So, the experiences that I had at Holy Cross created tremendous friendships but also expanded my mind and allowed me to get into situations that are uncomfortable for me, but then find a place for me within that circumstance. And I think a lot of times that I see people that don’t have that background, they get into a circumstance, they get fixed on their belief, and they can’t participate in critical thinking. And critical thinking is the essence of what I believe Jesuit education’s all about, is it puts you on a circumstance where you are given the tools, but then almost expected to participate in a broader discussion. And as soon as you get stubborn and dig in, unless of course you’re in a debate, you lose the opportunity, I think, to take full advantage of the Holy Cross education.
Maura:
Welcome to Mission-Driven where we speak with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them. I’m your host, Maura Sweeney from the Class of 2007, Director of Alumni Career Development at Holy Cross. I’m delighted to welcome you to today’s show.
Maura:
This episode features Joe Morgan from the Class of 1981, a self-proclaimed poster child of Worcester higher education, Joe is a Worcester native who attended Holy Cross, WPI, and Clark University. After beginning his career as an engineer, he quickly rose through the ranks to serve as President of Sony Chemicals Corporation of America. From there, he pursued corporate roles at numerous private and public companies. At each stage, he used his influence in the C-Suite to lead with the values that he learned in his Jesuit Holy Cross education.
Maura:
Luke Knox from the Class of 2022 speaks with Joe about his decision to start his own company in November 2016 called siY. Be safe. Be inspired. Be you. As an entrepreneur himself, Luke speaks with Joe about best practices in business and management. Throughout the conversation, Joe touts the importance of leading with empathy in order to transform individuals, teams, and corporations.
Luke:
Welcome, everyone. I’m Luke Knox, a sophomore economics major. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Joe Morgan, Holy Cross Class of 1981. Joe, it’s great to have you on today. Thank you for coming onto the show.
Joe:
Thanks for inviting me, Luke. Glad to be here.
Luke:
No problem. Yeah.
Luke:
Starting off, you were a chemistry major when you were at Holy Cross, and in addition to receiving a Bachelor of Arts from here, you also earned your Bachelor of Science degree from Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) and an MBA from Clark University. It sounds like you’ve been educated by really the top institutions of Worcester.
Joe:
Right. So, I often refer to myself as the poster child of higher education in Worcester. There’s actually a little bit of extra data on those choices though. I started as a math major at Holy Cross. My dad was a math major, so dutiful son, I wanted to do what my dad did. But then I didn’t like it, so I became a chemistry major. And then there was a 3/2 program with WPI, and I like scale, big scale instead of beakers and labs, so I didn’t really like the experimental side of chemistry, so I went and got a chemical engineering degree at WPI. And then I needed a business degree in order to do what I do, which I’m sure we’re going to talk about.
Luke:
Yeah, we’ll get to that. That’s great. Worcester, obviously, grew up in Worcester. Great schools here. It’s nice to see that homegrown and experiencing all that Worcester has to offer. And I know that, from being a chemistry major at Holy Cross, now you’re getting your MBA and you’re running businesses, you’re obviously a very highly motivated individual. And in your opinion, what would you say your personal mission is and how does that drive you in the work you do?
Joe:
Well, I think when I was growing up, my parents focused on a few things. One was faith, certainly, and the other was education. So they invested a lot of time in both of those. And when you have strong faith and then you’ve spent your time in education, you get exposed to a lot of thought process, honestly. And so what my mission is, and it does reflect back probably to my family, which is the third thing my parents focused on, is giving back to people that don’t have the benefit of the things that you’ve been given.
Joe:
And so I spent a lot of time thinking about that with kid is really a passion for me. The impoverished is another thing I’m deeply passionate about.
Joe:
But I would say what’s interesting now for me more so than ever before, I’ve run a lot of bigger companies, and now I have my own company, which we’ll chat about. But we’re at a time I think in our world and our country where we can’t seem to get to a common agenda. And so, I have a mission or a passion now to help people see the possibilities of that. Because leadership is daily providing a platform for hope, but then wrapping it with reality. And that’s what I spend my time on each day and more.
Joe:
There’s a thing called The Bridge that I’ve developed with some folks, and we can chat a little bit about that, but that’s the essence of my focus now is to help people see the possibilities, but deep down inside for me, it’s the kids. It’s just making sure that that next generation can see the possibilities of the future. And I don’t think today in every case that is true, so that’s something that me and others like me are spending time on.
Luke:
And that same thought process intertwines right with the Holy Cross mission statement-
Joe:
Right.
Luke:
… men and women for others.
Joe:
Right.
Luke:
And could you speak a little more about how that… being at Holy Cross and going by that motto, how that has also affected you and your life decisions?
Joe:
You know what? I was chatting this morning about this, is I think growing up in a Catholic education is a lot of memorization that takes place. And I think if you don’t get stressed about trying to memorize all the things about Jesuit education and the mission and the vision and all, but just live it, let it penetrate you, then I think the possibilities of living what you just said comes to be.
Joe:
So, the experiences that I had at Holy Cross created tremendous friendships but also expanded my mind and allowed me to get into situations that are uncomfortable for me, but then find a place for me within that circumstance. And I think a lot of times that I see people that don’t have that background, they get into a circumstance, they get fixed on their belief, and they can’t participate in critical thinking. And critical thinking is the essence of what I believe Jesuit education’s all about, is it puts you on a circumstance where you are given the tools, but then almost expected to participate in a broader discussion. And as soon as you get stubborn and dig in, unless of course you’re in a debate, you lose the opportunity, I think, to take full advantage of the Holy Cross education.
Joe:
Now where that’s taken me in my career, you mentioned WPI and the 3/2 program, I always say that Holy Cross helped me get every job that I have because I learned communication skills, I learned adaptation. WPI allowed me to advance in technical fields because of the process expertise that I was able to glean through that particular education. And that combination was really powerful for me.
Luke:
And going back to what you were saying about communication skills, I think when I was thinking about my own choices on where I wanted to go to school, I definitely wanted to go somewhere like Holy Cross where I could learn those crucial communication skills. And I know that being in business, being an entrepreneur, how like you were just saying, how really important being able to present yourself and effectively communicate with others, how important that is to not only sell a product but to grow a business. I was wondering if you could speak more about that and how you’ve used your communication skill to further your career?
Joe:
On the communications side, simplicity is so, so important. I am sure as you’ve gone through your entrepreneurial journey you probably got way too complex at the start, and people have advised you to make it simple, simple, simple. The one-pager, whatever they’ve told you, and it’s true. Because people can’t absorb more than that generally. And as the entrepreneur, as the person with the idea, you know way more than they do, and you’re trying to engage them just a little bit in what you do so that they’ll help you, whether you want money or you want them to buy the product or you want advocacy, whatever that might me, on the communications side, simple, simple, simple. But then also be really clear on knowing your audience. What is it that you want from them or need from them or desire from them and focus only on that. Don’t make it broader because you’ll lose them. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs that I’m around, they get so passionate about what they do, they lose sight of why they’re in this particular conversation and dialog. So that would be one thing.
Joe:
The other thing is the issue of courage. You have to be somewhat courageous to be an entrepreneur. That doesn’t mean that you’re necessarily saving lives or something like that. You might, depending upon what you do, but you really do have to have courage because as I’m sure, you can share this with the group too, the audience, is there’s a lot of negative that comes from entrepreneurialism. You get a lot of feedback that hurts. And how fast do you respond to that is going to be important. Your resilience quotient is really, really important because if you get stubborn and say, “I don’t really care what you said to me. I’m just going to continue to do what I was doing.” Probably shouldn’t take that approach. There’s some value in every input that you get.
Joe:
The other, probably the third part of this is trust. Be really careful who you look to for trust. If someone doesn’t have your interest in mind, it’s really all about them, then you’re probably not going to get good advice. So that’s the other part. So, you want to focus on being courageous, learn a lot, but then your advice, and then always, always, always be simple.
Luke:
And I think it’s super important as an entrepreneur, and I’m sure that you realize this as well, is that when you receive that, it always happens you’re going to receive negative criticism. And I think me personally, in my own experience, I’ve taken that really, not as an opportunity to be bitter, but to be better and to realize, okay, it’s really important to view every single opinion that’s coming at me with, whether you have a product or a business or you’re offering a service, anything like that, and to use it to every day learn more about yourself, learn more about what you want to do, your product, whatever, and use that to help you out in that business setting the next day.
Joe:
Right.
Luke:
Stuff like that.
Joe:
Well, I think, you’re an entrepreneur, so when you start a business, it’s probably your money. So-
Luke:
Yeah, it is.
Joe:
… people that are around you, it’s not their money. So it’s easy to spend someone’s money if it’s not your money. And then time is all you have. So if you waste your time and waste your money, you’re not going to have the opportunity to create something of value from your ideas. So really what’s important is keeping it simple, but then taking the input from people that you trust and adapting quickly so that you can use whatever resource you have, which I think for… As I’m an entrepreneur too, you end up just with a little bit of time and a little bit of money, and if you use it right, you can turn it into more time and more money. If you use it badly, then it spirals. So, I’m sure you’ve experienced that.
Joe:
I think the other part of entrepreneurialism too is at some point you want whatever you’re doing to grow, and at that point you’re going to bring in other people. Learning how to trust other people is really a big deal, and I actually think that gets back to your first question about Holy Cross, is you believe in the mission, which I think we do or we wouldn’t be sitting here, and you are a good judge of people, you always have to validate, you can bring people in far more easily than people that don’t have belief in others. And you’ll never be able to get the benefit of what your idea is if you can’t eventually bring people into the conversation.
Joe:
I have been the entrepreneur a number of times working for entrepreneurs early in my career, and I actually never asked the question, but they trusted me enough to let me do the things on their behalf because they knew that they couldn’t scale it beyond their own means. But I’ve also seen entrepreneurs that don’t trust anybody, and it’s a problem because their idea’s great, but who wants to work in an environment where you’re not trusted? Where every day you think, “Oh my gosh, you’ve taken something from me?” That’s not helpful. So what happens then is people leave. The really good ones leave and then they get marginalized and the business never really achieves what it set out to do.
Joe:
So that would be a piece of advice for you because I hope that what you’re doing just explodes-
Luke:
Thank you. Yeah.
Joe:
… but you’re going to have to bring in other people when you do it, you know?
Luke:
Yeah. And we’re kind of in that process right now where we’re really building a team. And I know that one of your skills is being able to do that and build a successful team. And if you just had to list off a couple of big characteristics that every team regardless of what business they’re in or whatever, what are those main characteristics that every team kind of needs to have?
Joe:
I thought you were going to ask me a different question, so I’m going to answer the one I thought you were going to ask me, and then I will answer…
Joe:
I think the first thing to build a team is you have to know what you are good at. So get a whiteboard and write that down. Don’t write it in a notebook. Put it on the wall and then walk past it for a few days and make sure that you’re being honest with yourself. Don’t put it in a notebook, close it, stick it somewhere that you’ll never go retrieve it. Put it on a wall. And then let a couple people that you know that actually care about you look at it and say, “You know what, Luke, I don’t agree with that. You think you’re really good at that but you’re actually not.” And so move that to the other one which is, whatever the right term is, deficiency or something that I can improve. But be really clear on the three to five things that you’re really great at, but then also compare that to what you’re most passionate about.
Joe:
If you could spend the amount of time that you spend on entrepreneurialism, what part of that do you love the most? And if you could spend all your time doing that, because that’s likely to equate to value. Once you get that right, now you can start filling in the spots. And don’t think about it so much functionally, although eventually you have to have competency in the functions. Think about it in terms of behaviors and values. You’ve got to get people with the same values as yourself, and they have to be able to articulate that and then demonstrate it. So that’s one.
Joe:
The second one is the behaviors which are different. Values are aligned in the sand. Integrity, think honesty, things like that. Behaviors are when faced with a pressure situation, I scream and yell. That’s a behavior.
Luke:
Right.
Joe:
I’m guessing you probably don’t want that around.
Luke:
No. Yeah.
Joe:
You want somebody that’s going to get on the balls of their feet and participate and dig in. That’s a behavior that you might want in your business. So I’d be really clear on who you are, where you like to spend your time, get the attitudes and the behaviors and the values right.
Joe:
Now you can talk about financial. So if you’re going to scale your business, you’re an economics major so you have some reasonable financial understanding, but you do have to have financial expertise in your business so people can cover your back so you can do all those great things you want to do.
Joe:
Without sales, we don’t have a business, so that may be your strength, but you might be the idea person. You may be the product manager, whatever that strength is. So if you need sales and you need finance, make sure that you’ve got really strong people in the marketplace that you’re in. Now you could have a pure online business in which case you need somebody with e-commerce expertise. Whatever that core thing is, get the best you can, and whatever you think you can afford, pay a little more. Because what tends to happen, I see a lot of times with entrepreneurs is you scale it back just a little bit, and you want people to feel like you do, but they’re not going to because it’s not their business.
Luke:
Good point. Yeah.
Joe:
So, don’t ever be misguided by a person’s individual passion to be an employee versus an entrepreneur. They’re different. They’re just different. So I think it’s really about who the person is first, and then you get to the acumen. Because I’m on a lot of boards with people and I meet some people that are just misaligned on the behaviors and the values, but they’re wicked smart. And I can tell you the wicked smart does not trump values and behaviors ever. Eventually that is going to catch up, and it’s I would… that’s kind of the pecking order that I would recommend.
Luke:
Yeah, values and behavior, definitely.
Joe:
Always.
Joe:
And it depends on what you need in your business too. I don’t know the details of your company, but you have to be clear on what competencies are most critical to you.
Luke:
Great point. And then being a leader in those teams, I know in one of your most recent articles, you talk about having the ability to really fully understand what’s going on in somebody’s life and how that might affect them in the workplace and outside of it.
Joe:
Right.
Luke:
Being a leader in a team and definitely being a leader in a startup company, how do you think that, myself or you, how do you go about that with being compassionate and empathetic towards your employees, your partners, people in your company?
Joe:
Well, this gets to curiosity. I was asked recently in an article, what do truly curious people do? It’s not questions. It’s about answers. So you’re asking me questions right now. You’re curious about those, I can tell by this conversation. But if you were just asking questions and you don’t really care what I say, we’re not going to have a very productive conversation.
Luke:
Right.
Joe:
And you’re not going to demonstrate any compassion. Or interest, actually.
Joe:
So, I think the most important thing is that first question or two that you ask in any interaction. Demonstrate that you actually about the person. So for example, we’ve faced some tragedy here at Holy Cross recently and I am quite confident that people that were closest to that, if you tried to have a conversation about something other than that circumstance, it would be very, very difficult for them. And you might have planned for weeks, months, maybe even six months, a year, to have a particular meeting with someone that might have been close to that situation, and you want to talk about your product. And you know what? They don’t want to talk about your product. They’re dealing with something that is just life changing and devastating to them. And if you have no ability to be sympathetic to that, then how are you possibly ever going to connect with them?
Joe:
And that’s one of the things I’ve learned in my career is you can plan and prepare as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, for that sale or that interaction, but what happened just before that person walked in the room is going to affect whether that interaction that have been planning for is successful or not. And so we need to draw that out. We need to not take it personally if they’re not involved in the meeting. Something awful might have happened.
Joe:
I’ll tell you a small story. My daughter was sick, and she was diagnosed with mono when she was in high school. And I was in a board meeting and my office was attached to the board room. And I had a board member that was very high personality and I’m a high personality too, and so he and I would often get into these challenges of one another. And as CEO, I’m supposed to accept that, and generally I did, and I kind of facilitated it. But when I heard my daughter was sick, my energy and my life is driven by my children and my wife, and so when I heard that I was just really affected by it. And so of course I walked into the board room moments after that, and within 15 minutes he was, not attacking, but he was on me again, and to me that was a game-on moment. And my back went up and I leaned in, and it was one of the most intense interactions of my career.
Joe:
Did I say anything inappropriate? No. Could I have taken a different track? For sure. Could you have heard a pin drop in the room? Absolutely. And he and I went at it, and then afterward he finally asked me what was different about today, and I said, “Here’s why.” “So why didn’t you tell me that?” I said, “You never asked a question. You’ve never asked me a question about me ever.”
Joe:
And so that to me is one of the largest demonstrations. You can have tremendous people around you, but if you never ask them anything about them, how you possibly going to get the most out of the relationship? You won’t. So that would be most advice is really get the questions right, and really care about the answers. And then once you know the answers, if the meeting that you were going to have isn’t possible now, talk about the other thing. Go there.
Joe:
I will say this though. There’s a lot of conversation about empathy right now. I think empathy is one of the most difficult things. Pure definition, I see the world as you do. I think that’s really, really hard, but I do think if you listen to people and have the right conversation, you can get closer and closer to their life experiences. But I think empathy is one of the most challenging things in the world.
Luke:
And it sounds like from what you’re saying, a huge part in working with clients or working with your team is having a relationship with them-
Joe:
Yeah. Sure.
Luke:
… and like a pure relationship. And I definitely agree with you that that understanding and that ability to emphasize with people, granted it is very difficult to do that, but putting your effort into that shows and people definitely can appreciate that.
Joe:
So for you, what is your favorite place on campus here?
Luke:
My favorite place? Probably Cool Beans.
Joe:
Cool Beans. Why?
Luke:
It’s just a place where usually I’m studying in the science library or Dinand, and it’s just like a place where go back, get a coffee, kind of decompress and just kind of enjoy myself for a little bit before I go back to studying.
Joe:
So it’s comforting to you, right?
Luke:
Yeah. Definitely.
Joe:
It allows you… Do you think better there?
Luke:
Yeah. I do.
Joe:
So that’s really interesting question, isn’t it?
Luke:
Yeah, it is.
Joe:
So if I want to have a-
Luke:
It is. Yeah.
Joe:
… really interesting conversation with you, that would be the place we should go.
Luke:
True.
Joe:
We shouldn’t go where I want to go. If I want to have a conversation about you, then I need to find where you’re most comfortable. And then let’s go there.
Joe:
So here’s an interesting thing. When I was first a manager, there were all these books about management, leadership, and… I had some managers that, “We’re going to adopt this book.” You know what? That’s not really what we should do. Think about Holy Cross. When you read all these books we read, you’re only two years in and I was here for four years. I didn’t commit to memory everything I read, but I adapted my life to certain principles that I learned, and then I paid attention to the professors who have read far more than I ever would read about a specific topic. I wasn’t trying to memorize all of it or have my life guided verbatim with everything I learned. It was really about this will help me shape it.
Joe:
So there was this thing called manage by walking around. So, okay. We’re going to manage by walking around, which was about visibility. People would get feedback that managers weren’t visible, so we have to be more visible. So what managers would do… I wasn’t a manager. I was becoming a manager. They would just appear. So what would your reaction be if you’re in the middle of doing something and a person that you never see suddenly appears? What would your reaction be do you think?
Luke:
I would probably be first, like if it was my boss or something that came over, I would definitely make sure I was really paying attention to everything I’m doing and doing it the best I can, and then try to get some type of one-on-one interaction with them if I never see them and kind of put a face to their name.
Joe:
So you’re taking the burden of that. It’s supposed to be them making you feel good, and you’re feeling like you have your change your behaviors-
Luke:
Work harder and-
Joe:
Yeah. Exactly.
Luke:
… yeah. Yeah. You feel on the spot. Yeah.
Joe:
Precisely. I was annoyed because I don’t… they weren’t adding any value to me. So I thought that was really… to be honest with you, I thought that was stupid, a really stupid guiding principle. So I think management by walking together is better.
Joe:
So what I do and have done is I go get somebody and say, “Let’s go take a walk.” And it’s fascinating what happens when you take a walk with someone versus sitting in a small space with someone. There’s a lot going on. You can point out things, say, “Hey.” It’s just more comforting, more casual, and so that’s the way I began doing it. And I learned so much about people getting, again, closer to empathy by walking with them as opposed to walking into their environment and hovering over them and making them feel like I was participating, when in fact, I really wasn’t.
Joe:
I didn’t do it but once or twice. I thought it was foolish, and then I did this other thing. It was really great. So that’s how I did my one-on-ones and my up-to-speeds and all that stuff with people, which was great.
Luke:
Because sometimes in my opinion, it can feel like if you have a boss hovering over you, it almost feels like they’re micromanaging you. And that kind of makes you feel a little degraded and kind of, “Hey, I can do my job. I don’t need him watching over me.”
Joe:
Right.
Luke:
And I think that’s a great idea of walking around with whoever is in your company and really, like I was saying, building that relationship with them.
Joe:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, because it’s… You break barriers that way.
Joe:
I had a guy that worked for me, 6’7″, and I used to get feedback that he would be intimidating sometimes. He’s the nicest guy, and what he would do is he would walk up to someone when they were sitting at their desk and he’d lean over them. He was like Godzilla. And they would be so intimidated by his size, but he was the nicest guy. And all I told him to do was just sit down. Just sit down with them. And then he… And that barrier went away. It was fine. But he just, he wasn’t intimidating, but he… intending to be intimidating.
Luke:
And building that relationship and how have you as a leader within the company that you’re starting right now, siY, how have you adopted those same principles into, hey, now you’re the CEO. Now you’re running this company. You’re at the very top. How have you done that as the head of this company?
Joe:
The truth of that is when you’re running a big company like I’ve had the fortune of doing, you have a platform. I have employed large numbers of employees that work for me and if there’s something that I want to convey, get across, I have resources all over the place. I don’t have that now. I have a virtual company essentially. And so, I have a large group of executives that I have great regard for that work as part of my network. I have some other people that subcontract work to me. So my influence has to be demonstrated in a very, very different way.
Joe:
So I’m on the front end of the business creating demand for what we do at siY, and then engaging these folks as independent people. But they buy into the mission. It goes back to what I said before, we have values in our company, we have behavioral expectations, and then we have a vision to create environments where dialog leads to impact. It’s not to create a dialog, but it’s actually to have an impact. And everybody agrees with that.
Joe:
So we go together in our own walks of life, not associated entirely to siY, but when we come together, that’s who we are. So it’s a very different experience for me, but one that has yielded so many incredible situations that I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to do.
Luke:
At siY, could you tell me a little more about what you do?
Joe:
Sure.
Luke:
How you got the name?
Joe:
Let me tell you the story on the name because I think that really kind of demonstrates my career journey. When I came out of WPI, I was a chemical engineer. That was 1983. Market wasn’t so good. Economy was rough. So I ended up taking a job as a buyer. And I figured, my father always said, “You may not be the biggest,” which I’m not, “you may not be the smartest,” I’m not, “but no one should ever out work you.” So I figured if I get a job, I’ll just work really, really hard and then I’ll create opportunities for myself. Which I was fortunate to do.
Joe:
And the first big job I got was a safety engineer. So, I was working at a chemical plant focused on safety. And what I found was that the mechanism of creating a safe environment for people was vital to being successful in business, but attitudes and behavior were so important in order for that environment to actually be created.
Joe:
So the first part of be safe was physical safety. And then I experienced that, and then I also had experiences as a manager, and I realized that emotional safety is also very important. Going back to that conversation we had just a few moments ago, people have stuff going on in their lives. It’s actually okay to cry and laugh. Don’t judge people because they have emotion. Actually try and help them leverage their emotion in a positive way. So emotional safety was really, really important. I always say every person who’s ever worked for me has cried at some point, not because I’m yelling or mean to them, but because they have something going on in their life and they need to express it.
Joe:
The other one is people are really, really smart and they have a lot of experiences. They may be different experiences, but I respect you, Luke, for what you’ve done already. And those experiences that you have and your intellect, I need to learn from you just as you’re learning from me. But a lot of people don’t do that because you don’t have my experience. You don’t have gray hair yet. So therefore, your experiences aren’t really relevant. Not true. Absolutely not true.
Luke:
Right.
Joe:
So the other one is intellectual safety. I need to create an environment where you can feel that whatever experience and intellect you have can be applied. So those are three parts.
Joe:
I started with a triangle, and then I realized cyber safety is very, very important in the world we’re in today. Having had my identification stolen, I know that personally. So now I call that the safety diamond. So physical, intellectual, emotional, and cyber safety. So we talk about that. So be safe. Inspired is… I’m not an alarm clock. You have to get out of bed in the morning, but then I’m going to ask you one question. What are you most passionate about? That question I ask you, if you could spend all of your time doing something, what would it be? And once you tell me that, if you’re willing to tell me that, let’s focus on that and I’ll inspire the hell out of you to be able to go after that dream. I will push you in ways that will allow you to live that dream. That’s the inspired part.
Joe:
And then you, in my company it’s YOU, there’s something about you, maybe more than one thing, that’s truly unique. It’s not that you’re an economics major. There’s a lot of economics majors. There’s something about you, and let’s find out what that is and let’s celebrate that. So create a safe environment, find your passion, inspire you to continue to peck away at that every day, and then celebrate what’s unique about you, that’s be safe; be inspired; be you.
Joe:
The logo of my company is a wave. I grew up going to Maine in the summer. Surfed a little bit. Always found that the whole surfing thing, you have to work really, really hard. You have to be strategic to choose when to go. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t work, then you… some people get mad and they leave, but you just go back out until you get that. And when you get that wave, it is the best feeling in the world.
Luke:
It’s great, yeah.
Joe:
It is absolutely one of the best feelings ever, and that’s why the wave’s there. And the blue is the eyes of my kids. And so every time I look at it, I see my children, which is the source of a great deal of energy for me.
Luke:
Totally.
Joe:
So that’s why that’s where that is. And my daughter designed it for me. And she’s a Holy Cross grad.
Luke:
Oh nice.
Joe:
So, be safe; be inspired; be you; that’s how that all came together, and where that comes to live is we do advisory work for small to mid-sized companies, and we help them… we bring people with experiences that they normally wouldn’t be able to access due to the size of their company, and we help them do things with strategy, culture, and… sometimes it’s the finances and the business, but it’s always strategy and culture. But everything we do starts with people. And if we are not allowed to interact with the people, we can’t do business with them because that’s where it all starts. So, that’s what we do.
Luke:
That’s nice. Yeah. A consulting firm for-
Joe:
Yeah, we do advisory consulting.
Luke:
Yeah, for those small companies who might not be able to access-
Joe:
That’s right.
Luke:
… the resources of a large consulting firm like McKinsey or something like that.
Joe:
Right. With have the skills of companies, the larger companies, but we do it at a point where, price point, and also a participation point that’s a little different.
Luke:
And back to what you were saying about… personal interaction and culture, do you mean the culture within that said company?
Joe:
Yes. But that’s a great question because culture is all about interactions. And so, interactions are not just the employees or the team or whatever the term is for the company; it’s really whoever you interact with. So there’s a supplier interaction. There’s a customer interaction. There’s a community interaction. And if it’s a privately held business, there’s a family interaction. So you have to be concerned and confident in all of those things.
Joe:
We take an operator’s view. So we try and sit on the side of the table of the owner or the leaders, and that’s how we come at it every day. We don’t come in with a mechanism, we’re going to say, “This is how you do it.” We’re going to adapt our business to… or excuse me, our approach to what is most appropriate for the company that we’re doing business with. And we’re not for everybody because not everybody wants to share everything about what they do.
Luke:
Very true.
Luke:
So essentially, reiterating, you go in. For each different client you work with, do you attack that operation differently? Like so for company X, you might advise them this way, but then for this company, you’re doing it in a different way. Do you approach each person you work with the same, or do you kind of take it as a case-by-case scenario?
Joe:
I would say… That’s a great, that’s a very good question because I think there has to be somewhat of an approach that’s consistent-
Luke:
Sure. Yeah.
Joe:
… or you can never scale it. So there is a… It always starts with an assessment. So, I always meet with the CEO. I would say 9 out of 10 times I interact with the board, if there is one. Most of the time there is. And then I talk to the most senior leaders of the company. And then I walk the business with them, going back to my walking thing. I want to see the business myself. Because sometimes people describe the business to you in a room, and then you go out, and like that is not at all what’s going on here. So you get a really good sense right away how people react to people.
Joe:
So for example, I have had numerous situations where a CEO would tell me, “I am absolutely connected with the employees of the company.” And then they walk out there, and everybody turns away as they walk in. And so that’s not… So they’re missing something there.
Joe:
So it’s really, the assessment is, tell me about your business. Let me talk to some people so that I can balance it. Let’s go for a walk. And then let’s come back. I’ll give you some observations and some thoughts on it. And from there, let’s build a plan. What is it that you need to do?
Joe:
And it could be that we help people kind of restate their vision. We help people understand the value system that actually exists within their business. Have they been consistent there? And spend some time on the truths of the company. What is it that is actually going on here? And then from there, I would say that all the time there’s a transformation happening in the business.
Joe:
If you go back to the first question you asked me about Holy Cross and the Jesuits, that it’s evolution. It’s about evolution, evolving as people. And that’s what happens in companies too. You may have a great idea as an entrepreneur but it’s not going to last forever. In fact, in your lifetime-
Luke:
Very true. Yeah.
Joe:
… ideas come and go far more quickly than they did when I was starting at your age. So, we have to be aware of those changes, and we spend a lot of time with preparing the company for a transformative change.
Joe:
So for example, if you have a product that’s been great, you’ve made money, and then suddenly it’s starting to decline, well, it could be that the team that you have around you is really good for that, but where you need to go, it’s not. So we come in as a third party and help you see the things that you wouldn’t otherwise see.
Joe:
Because it’s hard. Change is very difficult, especially when it becomes personal. Sometimes people aren’t the right people and you have to help them see that, and if they can change, great. If they can’t, then maybe you need to get someone different. So we do that too. We help people do it.
Joe:
But we try and work with companies that are probably between 50 million and a billion and a half to two billion in size. And we always work with the most senior people in the company. And we get in early, and then we help create plans, and generally we’ll stay for maybe six months, and then if they want us to operate, we will, but generally, they don’t.
Joe:
And then I have a lot of clients personally that I work with the CEO in an advisory capacity and I’m kind of a confidant to them. So we spend time talking about the business and I get to help them. Because CEO jobs are very lonely, and so they don’t have anybody to talk to, so I become that person for them. So, that’s just Joe Morgan. It’s part of siY, but it’s not the total focus.
Luke:
And going back to your Holy Cross education, were there any times when you were at Holy Cross or any other school in Worcester where you thought about wanting to do that in the future? Wanting to be in this line of work that you’re currently in?
Joe:
I’ll tell you, my parents were schoolteachers so we didn’t talk about business. But if I was honest about it, if I go back to my first job, if I had been aware of what I was actually doing, I think the answer would have been yes, but I wasn’t. I worked. I made money. I wanted… My wife and I went to Holy Cross. We got married in 1983. We’ve been married for 36 years. Love of my life and my best friend. Very, very fortunate. But I thought about I need a job. I’m going to advance. Hopefully as I advance, I’ll get more responsibility, but I don’t think it was until I got exposed to presidents of companies that I realized there was a better way. And it was at that time when I was in my late 20s where I thought, “I think I can do this better.”
Joe:
Now, I had great mentors that were around me that taught me different things. Like my father-in-law is a finance guy. I remember when I was just out of Holy Cross, my wife Amy and I went down to visit her parents in Washington, DC, and I went to his office. The people loved him. They absolutely loved him. But they would do anything for him too, and they worked incredibly hard. And I thought, “Why aren’t all the executives like that?”
Luke:
Right. Interesting.
Joe:
Because wouldn’t it be great if they were?
Luke:
Yeah. It would be. Yeah.
Joe:
And they’re not. They’re just not. And he was just such a great guy.
Joe:
And then I worked for an entrepreneur, and he said, “I need you to go do things that I can’t do in the role that I’m in, but I have your back.” And I thought, “Wow. He trusts me. What a great thing. I’ll go do anything now that I know that.” I had another mentor, he taught me about people. He said, “It’s all about the people, Joe.” And he communicated and he… I’ve told this story before, but when you’re interviewed, he’d say, “Cross your legs,” which I’m doing right now. And I did. And I had short socks, and you could see skin. The next day… You’ll never have this in your career, interoffice envelope. You ever heard of that?
Luke:
No, I haven’t. No.
Joe:
So it’s an envelope that you write someone’s name on and then you put it in the mailbox, and it gets delivered.
Luke:
Okay. Yeah.
Joe:
And there’s a little red string on the back that you put on this little circle thing that’s a clasp.
Luke:
Got it.
Joe:
So and the next day I get an interoffice envelope from the president. I’m like, “Oh my gosh. Did I do something wrong?” And I open it up and it’s… I’ll show you right now, long socks. So I’ve always worn long socks.
Joe:
So the little things matter. Shine your shoes. Clean your car. It’s all the little stuff.
Luke:
It’s all attention to detail, stuff like that.
Joe:
Exactly. Always. And that was very, very important to me in my development as a career.
Joe:
But I will say, going back to my first job, I was an ice cream maker in Ogunquit, Maine at the Viking. It’s not there anymore. Mrs. Everson was the owner, and to be a cashier was like a big thing because you’re holding the money at the company, right? And to get a key to get into the business when the family wasn’t there was also a big thing. I got both of those.
Luke:
Wow.
Joe:
I got to be a cashier and my sister was a cashier too, but I got to be a cashier, and they gave me the key to make the ice cream. But the thing that I remember absolutely the most was when you give people back change, this is how you do it. So the George Washington, Lincoln, Hamilton, the face is always in the same direction. And how many times… You probably… I don’t even know if you use money, but… cash.
Luke:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joe:
You may just use a card.
Luke:
Yeah.
Joe:
Today, nobody… They just hand the money to you. It’s unbelievable. It drives me absolutely crazy.
Luke:
I never thought about that.
Joe:
But it’s the attention to detail and respecting that it’s my money actually. I just bought something from you. It’s actually my money. So give it back to me with respect. That’s what she taught me. So those are the things…
Joe:
I wish I had a mentor when I was your age about business that allowed me to kind of coagulate all these experiences because I think I would have been… I think I would have done something on my own earlier, but I also got married when I was 23, so we began a life shortly thereafter together, and so you get in that groove, that swim lane, and it wasn’t until about three years ago that I decided to start my own business.
Luke:
And it’s those very small but important attentions to detail that really build your character and really show you how a business should operate and how you should operate in life. But however, you got married at 23, and then you were in jobs. It’s definitely a difficult and very courageous decision to step out of that and then go and start your own business. And I was wondering if you could speak a little bit to about the courage that entrepreneurs have to have if they want to succeed?
Joe:
My courage at this stage is probably different than the courage at your stage possibly. I’ve got a large network. I’ve been fortunate in some circumstances. I do fund my own business, so I’m not… I don’t have any investors or anything. I don’t have any partners per se.
Joe:
The courage for me was the change. It was less the financial implication, but it was more… But I will say right now, it’s a financial implication because what I’ve learned, I want to address… because I have a couple other things that will become… I’ll hire employees to do these other things. So now I have to make a substantial investment to make those happen. So that’s going to require some courage on my side to go with it, right?
Joe:
But I would say that the thing that was the catalyst… This was actually an absolute true story. I was at church on a Sunday, and I was in a situation with a business that I was CEO of. It was a difficult situation, and the priest is fantastic at our church, and… in his homily he told a story about when he was in… being prepared to become a priest. He said that he was walking. He was distraught about something. He was walking in the hills and he found himself in a place where he really wasn’t paying attention and suddenly, he can’t go back because the crevice was so large. And he doesn’t really even know exactly how he got there. And the only thing he could do was go forward. And had he been totally cognizant of the situation, he never would have gotten himself into that particular spot.
Joe:
So at that moment in church, I decided, I am going to go do this. That was when I decided to do this.
Luke:
Wow.
Joe:
And it was because of my faith and it was because-
Luke:
Your faith. Yeah.
Joe:
… of that story, and I said, “This is my moment. I have stepped across. I can’t go back so I’m going forward.” And I actually went and resigned the next day.
Luke:
Wow.
Joe:
Now I had to talk to my wife about it, of course. And that was the courageous part, because it was hard. We were going to eat, we had a house, and all that stuff. It’s not like that. But it was a big difference, and our lives changed as a result of that.
Joe:
And so, I went, and I actually went to Gethsemani in where Thomas Merton was as a monk, and I spent three days there in silence, which is hard to believe. I didn’t talk for three days. I went to mass six or seven times a day, and I read a lot of books and I went walking in the woods. And here’s what I got from that experience is silence is the loudest experience you’ll ever have. And just by being alone in the woods, I heard things that I hadn’t heard. And that was tragic to me because I had been working and traveling, and I missed out on so much. And I realized that I had missed a spontaneity in life by traveling and doing all that I had done and my career. I never missed a birthday, I never missed an anniversary, I never missed any of the planned things, but I missed all the things when your son or daughter comes home and someone’s mean to them at school, or something happened that was great. I wasn’t there. I wasn’t there. And I made a vow that if I was able to make this change that I would be more aware of that.
Joe:
Now I’m not perfect, but I work every day to try and be more in the spontaneity of life. And that’s a lesson is to… sometimes you have to step out of what you have to see that there’s so much more. Like I wouldn’t be doing this today probably if I was in the other situation. My schedule would be too busy. Well, I made this a priority because I love Holy Cross and I want to give back, and if one person walks away from this conversation feeling better about themselves, or they see there’s something that they can do now that they might have not really thought possible, then Luke, you and I just spent a good 20, 30 minutes together. And that’s the way I would say I feel now.
Luke:
It’s powerful, yeah.
Joe:
Yeah, it’s big. For me it works.
Luke:
That’s amazing about the faith and church. That’s… yeah. That’s unbelievable.
Joe:
He’s fantastic. Actually the other priest, we have… There’s only one Jesuit in Tennessee and he graduated with Father Bruce. He went to Holy Cross, Class of ’81. Yeah. So he’s great too. Yeah, he’s awesome. It wasn’t his story though.
Luke:
Just going back to Worcester, that’s a lot to digest. But some more lighthearted stuff now. Grew up in Worcester. Went to school in Worcester. I got to know, best spot, restaurant. What do you think?
Joe:
Wow. That’s a great question.
Luke:
There’s a lot of good ones.
Joe:
My favorite place is no longer there, which was the Millbrook Diner, which you probably have never heard of. So that’s a good question. What’s the favorite… There’s… I would say where I usually go is either Miss Woo’s or The Boy. And then I used to go to the… What’s the diner across the street? Part… from the Boulevard. That’s where we used to go, but I don’t think that-
Luke:
I know-
Joe:
You know what I’m talking about?
Luke:
Yeah, I know what you’re talking about.
Joe:
But I would-
Luke:
I can’t think of the name.
Joe:
That’s a good… I don’t know. That’s a… I don’t know. There’s it’s many new places here. What the heck?
Luke:
Yeah, there are.
Joe:
So, I will tell you this. Kelley Square today, I did go through Kelley Square, which is when I went to St. John’s in Shrewsbury, I had a brother, Brother William taught us. He said he used to close his eyes and just drive through. Continues to be the case. The worst place, although with the new baseball stadium, I suppose it’s going to be addressed. Very happy that the Sox are coming to Worcester. We’re happy about that, yup.
Joe:
I’m a diner guy, to be honest with you, so I love all the diners. That would be the way I grew up.
Luke:
Yeah, diners are great. Yeah.
Luke:
Another kind of just lighthearted question. But as a business executive, obviously you got to be very in-tune with what’s going on in society. Are there any new type of trends in social media or in the news that have really caught your eye?
Joe:
Yeah. So without getting too political, I will say that I have a problem with current leadership. It does matter how you do what you do. It’s not just the outcome. So the mechanism, the value system, and how you actually approach leadership matters a lot to me. So, I’m going to add something here that is a little bit of a twist on your question, but I think it’ll kind of bring-
Luke:
Sure.
Joe:
… a few things together.
Joe:
So when I was running a bigger company, I had a platform and I had a responsibility as the CEO of the company, I felt, to talk about the question that you just asked me about. If we’re having a bad economic period, 2008 I was CEO of a company, economic crash, I got in front of everybody and said, “Okay, we got problems. Here’s what’s going to have to happen. We’re going to have to freeze… We might have to have some layoffs,” but I was honest and transparent with everybody. Very, very difficult.
Joe:
So macroeconomic trends, I think, if I were running a bigger company, this issue with the virus from China-
Luke:
Coronavirus.
Joe:
… everybody’s concerned about that. They should be. Whether it’ll be bigger than people think it is at the moment, I don’t know. I’m not an expert in that area, but I do think we need to be aware of it. So I think we need to convey these things.
Joe:
But what’s most troubling to me is that we can’t seem to get to a common agenda. We can’t figure that out. And if the country were a business, we’d go out of business. And so, I believe that some of the business principles can be brought to that conversation. So I started a thing called The Bridge. And The Bridge is bringing people from different perspectives together. And I’ve done it in Ohio. I’ve had public forum in Ohio with groups of people, and now I’m doing it in Nashville on the 18th of this month.
Joe:
And people that are helping me facilitate this are four people. Well, there’s three that’s going to do this one. There’s Troy Smith. He’s an African American leader in the city. Great guy. He did some rap stuff when he was a kid. He grew up in the hood as he told me. We couldn’t in some ways be any more different, but we’re actually found a common platform. Jenn Miller is an inclusion diversity expert. She does this for businesses. She too is African American. Has got seven kids. Absolutely fantastic person. And then Chloe Adams. Chloe Adams is, she’s 25. She went to Auburn University as a marketing communications person. And I got to know her because my office is there and she’s just a direct communicator and appeals to her generation.
Joe:
So we’re having a meeting where we’re bringing people together, about two groups of 40, and we’re going to have a conversation about the common platform. And the four of us are going to tell a little story of why this is so important to us, and I want to show people that it’s possible to not solve it, but to agree that we can address things together. That we’re going to have this conversation. And so we’re addressing it through the lens of men and women, black and white, or Asian, what… Indian.
Luke:
Sure.
Joe:
Different races, ages, and orientation. Bring people… It doesn’t matter. It’s the you, YOU. We’re trying to bring as much diversity-
Joe:
… into that conversation. And then show… These will be people that don’t know each other, and they’ll be able to sit in a room and have a conversation. And just by virtue of bringing this up, it’s amazing how many people want to participate in a conversation.
Joe:
Now not sure where it’s going to go and I don’t really care at the moment where it goes, but I think it can be a bit of a movement, and I’m really excited about where we can take it.
Joe:
So that’s probably a part of where my energy is now being focused because I think without figuring this out, it’s just not helpful. So that’s a big part for me.
Luke:
It’s super important to understand everybody and everyone’s background, and like you were saying, that whole empathy and understanding where people are coming from, their beliefs and stuff like that-
Joe:
Right.
Luke:
… instead of shying away from that, embracing everybody and figuring out… or not even figuring out problems in society or whatever, in a company, but just addressing those issues and talking about it and being united, that’s huge in my opinion. Yeah.
Joe:
Think about this conversation. We don’t know each other that well, right?
Luke:
Right.
Joe:
But we were educated by the same institution, similar principles, many decades apart. But the expectation of us is the same. We’re to take this platform and bring it into the world, not pass judgment on people, but bring people together. And then evolve as we learn from others and make an impact that’s different tomorrow than it is today because we’ve evolved. We’ve learned. That’s the part. But you can’t dig in too early. And as long as you’re willing to listen and learn and talk, we can make a difference. And I will not be dissuaded from that. I will not. And there are people that get angry about these things and they want to dig in on one issue or they disagree, but that’s part of this. I’m not right, but I can facilitate a conversation. And I think that’s a skillset that I would really recommend continue to let evolve for yourself is be able to facilitate and bring people into the conversation because the most quiet person in the room is maybe the one that’s most valuable. Just because people process, you know?
Luke:
And that’s something that I was taught growing up as well. My dad, I always remember him talking to me about listening to everybody in the room. That’s what he would say. “Listen to everybody in the room. Everybody can offer something unique and bring something to the table. And comprehend that, understand that, and then use that to move forward.”
Joe:
Right.
Luke:
And yeah, that’s big.
Joe:
Because if you think about it metaphorically, it’s like making a cake or some… I don’t know, some meal or whatever. If you look at the people as being the ingredients, you don’t put equal amounts of everything. But if every person is an ingredient, you just take the right amounts, oh my gosh, it’s like the best cake ever, right?
Luke:
Yup.
Joe:
And that’s, I think, what I always think about when I’m in a room is, we’re trying to bake something. We’re try to make something together. And I don’t know if I heard someone say this or I made this up myself, but every time we’re together, just today, this will never happen again.
Luke:
True.
Joe:
Once in history will you and I be sitting in this room at this time of the day under this circumstance. So if we don’t walk away… if we can walk away with one thing from that and then tell someone else and do something different, what a great experience. And if you have more people in the room, wow. So let’s take full advantage of that. Because we are blessed to be able to do these things.
Luke:
Completely agree. Yeah. And we’ll just wrap it up here briefly.
Joe:
Sure.
Luke:
But one last thing about Holy Cross. What was your favorite class? Were there any… I know you’re a chemistry major, but were there any other… obviously the liberal arts education, learning more about just the specific major you’re in, were there any big classes that jumped out at you and really help you even today?
Joe:
I think the one that I talk about often is I took a course on, I don’t know if it was about atheism, but it was taught by an atheist. And I thought that was really interesting because, of course, being void of faith given how I grew up, I said the rosary every day and went to mass and all that stuff. But I just thought it was really interesting to have someone with such conviction about a totally opposing view, but also being open to the others and being able to teach us about that. And that to me gave great confirmation of what the Jesuit, what I took away from one of the Jesuit pillars was, “We will teach you from those that have depth of understanding and belief as opposed to someone that has a surface level understanding and just expose you to the topic.” And I thought that was fantastic.
Joe:
Now he didn’t convert me to atheism obviously, but it really in some ways confirmed my faith. But I would not have thought about that in a way that I have. And I also think that he moved my lack of judgment, how I don’t judge people, forward because I might have had a very negative reaction to an atheist. But in that course, I learned that he too is good person. He just has a different viewpoint. And I thought that was fantastic.
Joe:
I played soccer at Holy Cross so I cannot leave this conversation without saying that the guys that I played soccer with, those stories continue, and we just had a blast. And being a student athlete was fantastic. We had so much fun. We had so much fun.
Luke:
All right.
Joe:
Luke, thank you.
Luke:
Yeah, thank you.
Joe:
This was great.
Luke:
Appreciate it.
Joe:
Awesome.
Luke:
Definitely.
Joe:
So much fun. Good luck to you.
Luke:
Thank you. You as well.
Maura:
That’s our show. I hope you enjoyed hearing about just one of the many ways that Holy Cross alumni have been inspired by the mission to be men and women for and with others. A special thanks to today’s guest and everyone at Holy Cross who has contributed to making this podcast a reality.
Maura:
If you or someone you know would like to be featured on this podcast, please send us an email at alumnicareers@holycross.edu. If you like what you hear, then please leave us a review. This podcast is brought to you by the Office of Alumni Relations at the College of the Holy Cross. You can subscribe for future episodes wherever you find your podcasts. I’m your host, Maura Sweeney, and this is Mission-Driven. In the words of St. Ignatius of Loyola, “Now go forth and set the world on fire.”
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